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	<title>Comments on: Debunking the &#8220;Food Miles&#8221; Myth</title>
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		<title>By: MARC</title>
		<link>http://www.fijiwater.com/blog/2008/04/debunking-the-food-miles-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>MARC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 04:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fijigreen.com/?p=9#comment-261</guid>
		<description>i think the fundamentalist attitude to food miles is naive.  what if we dont want to buy local, but want to buy what we want?  should we make everyone spend their vacations within 20 miles by public transport, or allow them to fly overseas if they want to?  let&#039;s ask the Queen of England.  figures this would be popular in the soggy UK.  many of the loudest voices in food miles, are travel demons and narrow minded outcasts.  how do we value cross cultural food sharing, unique product offerings that are not immediately recognizable, opportunities to value innovation and build economies worldwide, safety benefits of being financially interconnected with other nations, etc.  often, imported food products are more expensive and this culls many to start with.  i am tired of food miles, fair trade and organic certifications, etc.  they have all become markets in their own right feeding themselves and protecting their own patch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think the fundamentalist attitude to food miles is naive.  what if we dont want to buy local, but want to buy what we want?  should we make everyone spend their vacations within 20 miles by public transport, or allow them to fly overseas if they want to?  let&#8217;s ask the Queen of England.  figures this would be popular in the soggy UK.  many of the loudest voices in food miles, are travel demons and narrow minded outcasts.  how do we value cross cultural food sharing, unique product offerings that are not immediately recognizable, opportunities to value innovation and build economies worldwide, safety benefits of being financially interconnected with other nations, etc.  often, imported food products are more expensive and this culls many to start with.  i am tired of food miles, fair trade and organic certifications, etc.  they have all become markets in their own right feeding themselves and protecting their own patch.</p>
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		<title>By: Paula</title>
		<link>http://www.fijiwater.com/blog/2008/04/debunking-the-food-miles-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>Paula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 05:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fijigreen.com/?p=9#comment-175</guid>
		<description>This is quite an interesting post &amp; comments thread. I have mixed feelings about the information here ó on the one hand, I think it&#039;s great that the Fiji company is making what appears to be an honest attempt to be transparent about its environmental impact and to take steps toward mitigating it, as well as engaging the general public on a forum like this. Credit it where it&#039;s due! Do Fiji&#039;s competitors have the courage to do the same?

On the other hand, it is extremely disingenuous to assert that buying/eating locally is fundamentally harmful to the environment across the board, as the closing graf of this post states unequivocally. 

I do understand the emissions-to-weight ratio of the anti food-miles argument, but this is just as flawed an approach as the original food-miles rule of thumb. The emissions-to-weight ratio implies that GHG emissions shrink as a function of increased weight and distance shipping, such that there comes a point when enough food has been shipped long enough distances that GHGs are actually removed from the atmosphere. This is clearly absurd.

Ultimately, the atmosphere simply cannot absorb ANY further GHG emissions without catastrophic climate consequences. Shipping ANYTHING halfway around the world contributes countless tons of GHGs to the problem, regardless of how few tons those may be compared with anyone else. Planet Earth is going down in flames; decreasing the number of matches one throws on the fire is not helpful.

Relocalizing food production ó ALL aspects of food production, including local production of renewable fuels, recycling everything possible, and relearning to eat seasonally ó is a major step in the right direction, not only because of the reduced GHGs that result from reduced transport, but because it would give population centers a chance to reach some level of homeostasis with local ecosystems. I don&#039;t see why any national food brand can&#039;t create local and regional supply chains utilizing low-emissions inland transportation like rail and river barge. That would go a lot further toward reducing GHG emissions than replacing a continent-wide trucking scheme with an additional 8,000 miles of ocean freight.

A final note ó the concept of &quot;food miles&quot; originated among the peak oil crowd and was co-opted by environmentalists. It was never intended to address carbon emissions. Originally, &quot;food miles&quot; was used as a rule of thumb to determine a community&#039;s food insecurity in the face of escalating fuel costs. The logic was that the further a food item had to travel to get to the grocery store shelves, the likelihood of its disappearance increased along with fuel prices. Turns out, the peak oil crowd was right, regardless of whether shipping food long distance equates to fewer GHG emissions or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is quite an interesting post &amp; comments thread. I have mixed feelings about the information here ó on the one hand, I think it&#8217;s great that the Fiji company is making what appears to be an honest attempt to be transparent about its environmental impact and to take steps toward mitigating it, as well as engaging the general public on a forum like this. Credit it where it&#8217;s due! Do Fiji&#8217;s competitors have the courage to do the same?</p>
<p>On the other hand, it is extremely disingenuous to assert that buying/eating locally is fundamentally harmful to the environment across the board, as the closing graf of this post states unequivocally. </p>
<p>I do understand the emissions-to-weight ratio of the anti food-miles argument, but this is just as flawed an approach as the original food-miles rule of thumb. The emissions-to-weight ratio implies that GHG emissions shrink as a function of increased weight and distance shipping, such that there comes a point when enough food has been shipped long enough distances that GHGs are actually removed from the atmosphere. This is clearly absurd.</p>
<p>Ultimately, the atmosphere simply cannot absorb ANY further GHG emissions without catastrophic climate consequences. Shipping ANYTHING halfway around the world contributes countless tons of GHGs to the problem, regardless of how few tons those may be compared with anyone else. Planet Earth is going down in flames; decreasing the number of matches one throws on the fire is not helpful.</p>
<p>Relocalizing food production ó ALL aspects of food production, including local production of renewable fuels, recycling everything possible, and relearning to eat seasonally ó is a major step in the right direction, not only because of the reduced GHGs that result from reduced transport, but because it would give population centers a chance to reach some level of homeostasis with local ecosystems. I don&#8217;t see why any national food brand can&#8217;t create local and regional supply chains utilizing low-emissions inland transportation like rail and river barge. That would go a lot further toward reducing GHG emissions than replacing a continent-wide trucking scheme with an additional 8,000 miles of ocean freight.</p>
<p>A final note ó the concept of &#8220;food miles&#8221; originated among the peak oil crowd and was co-opted by environmentalists. It was never intended to address carbon emissions. Originally, &#8220;food miles&#8221; was used as a rule of thumb to determine a community&#8217;s food insecurity in the face of escalating fuel costs. The logic was that the further a food item had to travel to get to the grocery store shelves, the likelihood of its disappearance increased along with fuel prices. Turns out, the peak oil crowd was right, regardless of whether shipping food long distance equates to fewer GHG emissions or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Luizhou</title>
		<link>http://www.fijiwater.com/blog/2008/04/debunking-the-food-miles-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Luizhou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 00:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fijigreen.com/?p=9#comment-167</guid>
		<description>Congratulation for earning a spot on my GREEN WASHERS blog.  

Fiji Water&#039;s attempts to project a green image is nothing short of hilarious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulation for earning a spot on my GREEN WASHERS blog.  </p>
<p>Fiji Water&#8217;s attempts to project a green image is nothing short of hilarious.</p>
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		<title>By: gliscameria</title>
		<link>http://www.fijiwater.com/blog/2008/04/debunking-the-food-miles-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>gliscameria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 00:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fijigreen.com/?p=9#comment-150</guid>
		<description>How long does it usually take a comment to post on this site?  I&#039;ve tried to reply in another thread a few days ago and it&#039;s not posted, along with telling me that I&#039;ve already posted if I try to re-submit...

I sticking to my guns on increased CO2 concentration being good for the planet.  (Not insane levels, but an increase to what we have today)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How long does it usually take a comment to post on this site?  I&#8217;ve tried to reply in another thread a few days ago and it&#8217;s not posted, along with telling me that I&#8217;ve already posted if I try to re-submit&#8230;</p>
<p>I sticking to my guns on increased CO2 concentration being good for the planet.  (Not insane levels, but an increase to what we have today)</p>
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		<title>By: Chu</title>
		<link>http://www.fijiwater.com/blog/2008/04/debunking-the-food-miles-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-143</link>
		<dc:creator>Chu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 14:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fijigreen.com/?p=9#comment-143</guid>
		<description>&quot;recycling rate is over 40%...better than the U.S.&quot; Yes, better than the US, but who doesn&#039;t. Check this: http://www.container-recycling.org/plasrate/sweden.htm. Why is this happening to the US? Because of the culture (I don&#039;t want to dig up capitalism for now). That&#039;s the fundamental question we need to think about. Fiji water is just one of the million companies in this culture who wants to make more money, by claiming green or not. FIJI Green Gal is just a person who need a job to pay her mortgage and raise her kid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;recycling rate is over 40%&#8230;better than the U.S.&#8221; Yes, better than the US, but who doesn&#8217;t. Check this: <a href="http://www.container-recycling.org/plasrate/sweden.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.container-recycling.org/plasrate/sweden.htm</a>. Why is this happening to the US? Because of the culture (I don&#8217;t want to dig up capitalism for now). That&#8217;s the fundamental question we need to think about. Fiji water is just one of the million companies in this culture who wants to make more money, by claiming green or not. FIJI Green Gal is just a person who need a job to pay her mortgage and raise her kid.</p>
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		<title>By: FIJI Green Gal</title>
		<link>http://www.fijiwater.com/blog/2008/04/debunking-the-food-miles-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>FIJI Green Gal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 18:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fijigreen.com/?p=9#comment-128</guid>
		<description>Hey Marc - Gliscameria argues on another posting that &quot;this &quot;Carbon Footprint&quot; stuff is garbage&quot; because &quot;CO2 is GOOD for the planet, period.&quot; You can check out my May 1 response there: &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.fijigreen.com/2008/04/finding-inspiration-in-recyclingand-more&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Finding inspiration in recyclingÖand more&lt;/a&gt;. Enjoy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Marc &#8211; Gliscameria argues on another posting that &#8220;this &#8220;Carbon Footprint&#8221; stuff is garbage&#8221; because &#8220;CO2 is GOOD for the planet, period.&#8221; You can check out my May 1 response there: <a href="http://blog.fijigreen.com/2008/04/finding-inspiration-in-recyclingand-more" rel="nofollow">Finding inspiration in recyclingÖand more</a>. Enjoy!</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://www.fijiwater.com/blog/2008/04/debunking-the-food-miles-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 04:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fijigreen.com/?p=9#comment-126</guid>
		<description>D*** Gliscameria, you got it all figured out (lol). Where&#039;d you run off to, GreenGal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D*** Gliscameria, you got it all figured out (lol). Where&#8217;d you run off to, GreenGal?</p>
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		<title>By: gliscameria</title>
		<link>http://www.fijiwater.com/blog/2008/04/debunking-the-food-miles-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>gliscameria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 21:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fijigreen.com/?p=9#comment-124</guid>
		<description>Maybe Fiji can expand into shipping fresh air to city dwellers.  They can compress it in Fiji and ship it all the way to NYC where mindless coffee shop types can suck it in for a few cents a breath.  Then they can offset the shipping and compressing energy by buying carbon credits, so for every breath of fresh air you take you are actually giving the planet a breath of fresh air!  It can come in nifty pretty jug looking things that when empty can be used as flower pots!  Work out a deal with Glade, have it seep out slowly and smell like the ocean, well, the clean parts of the ocean, away from shipping routes.

Better yet...
Sequester CO2 from the atmosphere, ideallllllly from your packing plants, convert it to dry ice and sell half for carbon credits and sink the other half deep into the ocean, combating both global warming both directly, through lowering ocean water temperatures, and through atmospheric CO2 removal!


Yes Fiji, I will gladly do PR work for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe Fiji can expand into shipping fresh air to city dwellers.  They can compress it in Fiji and ship it all the way to NYC where mindless coffee shop types can suck it in for a few cents a breath.  Then they can offset the shipping and compressing energy by buying carbon credits, so for every breath of fresh air you take you are actually giving the planet a breath of fresh air!  It can come in nifty pretty jug looking things that when empty can be used as flower pots!  Work out a deal with Glade, have it seep out slowly and smell like the ocean, well, the clean parts of the ocean, away from shipping routes.</p>
<p>Better yet&#8230;<br />
Sequester CO2 from the atmosphere, ideallllllly from your packing plants, convert it to dry ice and sell half for carbon credits and sink the other half deep into the ocean, combating both global warming both directly, through lowering ocean water temperatures, and through atmospheric CO2 removal!</p>
<p>Yes Fiji, I will gladly do PR work for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://www.fijiwater.com/blog/2008/04/debunking-the-food-miles-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 08:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fijigreen.com/?p=9#comment-122</guid>
		<description>The worst part about it is that this FijiGreenGal actually believes the tendentious nonsense she is spewing. You can spin anything you want any way you want, but common sense will always prevail: stealing Fiji&#039;s water, packaging it in wasteful oil-based plastic containers, shipping it to people who already have an abundance of local water resources, and advertising it as something more than what it is is irresponsible. History will see it as such even if you can&#039;t, GreenGal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The worst part about it is that this FijiGreenGal actually believes the tendentious nonsense she is spewing. You can spin anything you want any way you want, but common sense will always prevail: stealing Fiji&#8217;s water, packaging it in wasteful oil-based plastic containers, shipping it to people who already have an abundance of local water resources, and advertising it as something more than what it is is irresponsible. History will see it as such even if you can&#8217;t, GreenGal.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.fijiwater.com/blog/2008/04/debunking-the-food-miles-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fijigreen.com/?p=9#comment-118</guid>
		<description>It is not only not impractical to carry around a water bottle and refill it from the tap, it is a healthy reminder to drink more water, and a terrific way to save money over buying bottled water.  You mentioned what a hassle it is to go through airport security.  OH HEAVENS SAVE US.  On average, each of us flies round trip once every 3 months.  8 times per year I&#039;d have to, OH MY GOD, empty my water bottle, then refill it on the other side of the line from &quot;restroom taps&quot; (oh how gross!  Why you wouldn&#039;t say from a water fountain?  Just to make the case that it&#039;s icky...).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not only not impractical to carry around a water bottle and refill it from the tap, it is a healthy reminder to drink more water, and a terrific way to save money over buying bottled water.  You mentioned what a hassle it is to go through airport security.  OH HEAVENS SAVE US.  On average, each of us flies round trip once every 3 months.  8 times per year I&#8217;d have to, OH MY GOD, empty my water bottle, then refill it on the other side of the line from &#8220;restroom taps&#8221; (oh how gross!  Why you wouldn&#8217;t say from a water fountain?  Just to make the case that it&#8217;s icky&#8230;).</p>
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